All families have them – the embarrassing relative who can’t stop blundering around causing chaos or worse. Sarah Ferguson, having proclaimed her miraculous money-earning powers would swoop in to save the day for-not-quite-hubby Andrew in dire need of many millions to upkeep his grandiose Royal chateau appears to be stumbling at the first fence. Invited onto the morning TV show which has already been mortally wounded by a sex scandal followed by a murderous stalker threatening the lead presenter, she put on a toe-curling display of ineptitude. The Guardian review said the only saving grace were the main presenters who “managed to guide Ferguson through the show in the same way you help a drunk friend safely through their front door —– this stupid attention-seeking act would have fallen apart in seconds without them.”
Not to be outdone the Telegraph this morning relates yet another tawdry financial tale of Prince Andrew, the Duchess of York and their daughters in receipt of £1.4m from former banker accused of stealing £40m from wife of a Turkish MP. The Duke of York has reached a confidential settlement with a Turkish millionairess. The details are unedifying to say the least but worth reading:
The Montecito miseries aren’t the only Royal grifters.
Neither she nor Andrew look remotely upbeat ahead. She has her Solar Arc Uranus conjunct her Mars in 2024/25 for a sharp, short shock and at the same time a Solar Arc Mars conjunct her 2nd house Saturn hints at yet another financial catastrophe. Part of this may be her recovery from breast cancer.
Andrew likewise has tr Neptune square his Solar Arc Midheaven through 2024/25 as well as an enthusiasm and confidence denting tr Neptune square Jupiter; a likely house-move tr Uranus opposition his rooted 4th house Scorpio Moon (clinging on desperately) from mid 2024 into 2025; a secret (financial) shock from Progressed Mars conjunct his 8th house Mercury in 2024; a devastating and confused SA Pluto conjunct his 4th house Neptune end of 2024; and an uncertain, panicky, worried SA Neptune conjunct his Saturn in 2025/26. None of which will deflate his supreme self-confidence and sense of entitlement with two pushy Jupiter midpoints helping him dig in against the odds but even he will have to give way to gravity eventually.
Their relationship chart, not surprisingly, is floundering with an undermining tr Neptune square the composite Sun; a disruptive tr Uranus square Uranus; a cold shower from Saturn now into early 2025; and emotional/domestic challenges in 2024/25.
One mystery was why the Queen overlooked his multifarious flaws; the second is why Charles has not booted him into oblivion. If William had his way Uncle Andrew would be gone and that relationship is under massive pressure through this year and next. Charles may well have to upend the uncomfortable status quo from mid 2024 onwards.
Another mystery is why the Daily Mail will insist on printing deeply unflattering pics of the Duchess and her two daughters, none of whom has fashion sense, while waxing lyrical about how elegant and stylish they are. Comments below each piece clearly indicate readers totally disagree. There must be a reason.
In the long drawn out hostilities following the Brad-Angelina doomed marriage, volcanic bubbles of lava surface from time to time stoked up by the media into headline events – either arguments over the Provence vineyard or as now an outburst from one of the adopted children. The price of fame in the celebrity bear pit.
The latest is a rage-filled vent against Brad by Pax Jolie Pitt, 29 November 2003, born to a heroin addict mother in Vietnam, who spent his first three years in an orphanage, before coming across to the Jolie blended tribe – three biological, three adopted children. He is a Sun Sagittarius with Mars in Pisces opposition Jupiter square Pluto Mercury in Sagittarius. A focal point Mutable Pluto is a malcontent with hair-trigger, deeply defensive responses with an inclination to tear apart and destroy what he feels stands in his way. It can lead to high levels of nervous stress though will ultimately be creative if handled with maturity.
His Pluto Mercury conjunct square Mars in particular will give rise to eruptions of intense anger. With his background it is hardly surprising, poor kid, and one wonders how much these ever-so-caring mothers know about the effects of early damage, attachment theory and all the rest. Love is not enough. Even trained professions who adopt children from this kind of background struggle to cope.
What strikes me from the astrology is that he along with the other children carry the Mars Pluto stamp which echoes both parents’ charts even the ones with no biological connection.
Angelina has the most prominent version with an Aries Moon Mars opposition Pluto. Brad has Mars in Capricorn trine Pluto (Uranus) in Virgo. Their relationship chart has a composite Mars inconjunct Pluto.
Of the biological children Shiloh has a Mars inconjunct Pluto and the twins Mars Saturn trine Pluto. Maddox, adopted from early months in a Cambodia orphanage, has a Mars Pluto conjunction. Zahara also from an orphanage in Ethiopia has Mars and Pluto in Sagittarius, not conjunct.
Brad and Pax are a particularly tricky combination since Pax’s Pluto Mercury are conjunct Brad’s Sagittarius Sun so he will focus his highly-strung hostility onto him and Brad’s cool Saturn in Aquarius may be conjunct Pax’s Moon blocking warmth.
On the other hand Pax’s connection with Angelina is highly Neptunian with each Sun tied into the others Neptune. What can happen in dysfunctional families is that children ‘split’ – one parent is seen as all bountiful and the other becomes the hated one. Sometimes that is merited but it is often easier than facing up to the unpalatable truth that both parents are flawed human beings.
Mars Pluto in essence is strong willed, competitive, keen to get the upper hand, forceful and manipulative, has an urge to control others (sometimes as a defensive measure) which can lead to power struggles. The plus side is super-determined which can bring results, an ability to cope well in crises; it engenders courage. The downside is a tendency to be attracted to or actively create crises and melodramas and/or be addicted to danger and risk. It is a high-octane energy which needs a constructive outlet otherwise a conflagrations follows.
The atmosphere in that family must have been a pressure cooker ready to blow at the slightest provocation. Add drink and drugs and it lit the touch paper.
Mars Pluto hates letting go so splits are always rancorous and long drawn out. Mars Pluto views allowing the other side to win as an abject, life-diminishing prospect. In the dominate-and-submit battle, giving in means the annihilation of identity which brings a shame more painful to experience than physical death.
The Brad Angelina relationship chart has another three years at least of wrangle before transiting Neptune manages to undermine the controlling/possessive Pluto and Uranus elbows the composite Mars into agreement. Poor kids.
Add On: Another Mars Pluto is Whitney Wolfe Herd, founder of Bumble, the dating app, the youngest self-made female billionaire in history. Her aim was to give women more autonomy in meeting men, as a first step towards a more egalitarian world. She grew up in Mormon-dominated Salt Lake City, Utah, where men called all the shots, was in an abusive relationship in her teens, co-founded the dating app Tinder, but left suing the company for “atrocious sexual harassment and sex discrimination”. Three bills that Bumble pushed for have been passed, in Texas, California and Virginia, making the unsolicited sending of nude pictures a crime. It’s lobbying for a similar bill in the UK.
Born 1 July 1989, she is a Sun and Chiron in Cancer opposition Neptune, Saturn Uranus in Capricorn with her Mars in Leo square Pluto. She was bullied and has turned her anger and frustration into a pro-active campaign to stop others being harassed.
Cliff Richard having shimmied back into the limelight with a concert tour and no doubt a Christmas song up his sleeve, managed to put his foot in it with comments about Elvis Presley’s obesity. Not that he was wrong but saying it in an interview with a not-inconsiderably-sized Alison Hammond was hardly sensible and relating that he didn’t want a photo taken with the puffy rock star did sound a touch precious.
Richard himself keeps to a strict, at times one meal a day, diet to keep his boyish figure so clearly weight is one of his things.
Born 14 October 1940 9.10pm (rectified) Lucknow, India, he has a seemingly easy-going Libra Sun in his 5th house of entertainment and performance which is quincunx a 12th house Uranus – edgy and unconventional in private. Libra can come across as superficial, overly concerned with outer appearance. His go-ahead Aries Moon in his 10th house of career is opposition Mars and trine Pluto, so his emotional responses will be at times sharp but usually kept private.
His Uranus is in a creative, inventive trine to Neptune and his stubborn/enduring Jupiter Saturn conjunction in Taurus opposes Mercury in Scorpio – again secretive but also opinionated.
I have not looked at his chart in years but my recollection was he had a Fixed Pluto on the point of a T square – in fact it is wide-ish with Saturn Jupiter opposition Mercury square a 2nd house Pluto – but it does suggest a need to stay in control at all times, financially and in other ways. There is an odd tale from his first girlfriend who received a letter from him when he broke off their relationships in 1961 – “Being a pop singer I have to give up one priceless thing – the right to any lasting relationship with any special girl.” That is weird and has not stopped any other pop star from forming attachments. Taken at face value and not just as a face-saving argument, it does suggest an obsessive focus.
In 2014 in the aftermath of Jimmy Savile, the Met’s Yewtree investigation turned attention on his UK residence and the police search was filmed by the BBC, which caused a major scandal, cost the BBC a chunk in damages and no charges were ever laid. At that point tr Uranus in Aries was opposition his Sun and his Solar Arc Pluto – with tr Pluto after that moving into his trapped 8th house (birth time being accurate) – a considerable shock to his system.
His Libra Sun caught the recent Solar Eclipse which will have given his life a shake up.
Although Cliff Richard was initially marketed as a rebellious rock n’ roller like Elvis and Little Richard, he rapidly moved mainstream to become the housewife’s favourite, so he no doubt regarded Elvis’s louche lifestyle with raised eyebrows. There is a nodal cross over with Cliff’s Pluto conjunct Elvis’s South Node; and Cliff’s North Node being conjunct Elvis’ Mars – plus Elvis’s disruptive T square of Uranus in Aries square Pluto opposition Sun does collide with Cliff’s Libra Sun. They existed in the same cultural space initially but very different temperaments and talents.
All a media fuss about very little. And Alison Hammond at 20 stone is no role model for anyone though she appears to be reducing slightly.
Rosalynn Carter, wife of former president Jimmy Carter, has left behind a solid legacy of good works as she dies aged 96. A biographer described her as having achieved “one of the great political partnerships in American history”. Despite his lacklustre White House term generally regarded as a failure she was up with Eleanor Roosevelt in her influence as first lady. And their four decades after the White House as global humanitarians advocating peace, democracy and the eradication of disease set a new standard for post-term presidents.
She was born 18 August 1927 6am In Plains, Georgia, into poverty, becoming a carer for her siblings after her father died in her early teens. She married Jimmy when she was 18, was a devout Baptist and mother of four, but her soft smile and outward shyness masked her determination and passion for politics which had her dubbed the ‘Steel Magnolia’ in Washington.
Her 12th house Sun Neptune in Leo gave her idealism, flair, inspiration and the ability to work tirelessly behind the scenes on mental health and other issues. Her Venus Mars in Virgo in her 1st house added passionate enthusiasm for practical causes and a far-travelled 9th house Taurus Moon sent her round the world doing good.
Oddly enough his Uranus fell in her 7th house suggesting a bond that can only work where both gave each other freedom and she did travel and campaign a good deal on her own. His equally idealistic Venus Neptune North Node in Leo were conjunct her Sun Neptune for shared hopes and activism, with his Mars in Aquarius in opposition adding a spark of zest and no doubt a few arguments along the way.
His Libra Sun was opposition her Jupiter Uranus in Aries for an adventurous streak; and his Uranus square Jupiter sparked off her Mars Venus conjunction for the same in reverse – never a dull moment.
Her Mercury and Sun Neptune in Leo fell in his 10th for a helpful career mate and her Moon in his 7th for support and nurturing.
Their relationship chart had an affectionate and friendly composite Sun Venus conjunction and a domestically soothing Moon Jupiter conjunction. A 10th house Pluto which made them influential as a couple was in an enduring trine to Saturn and sextile the composite Sun. Both were keen on a settled family and home life, she with a Taurus Moon and he with a Scorpio Moon – they could both be stubborn but obviously found a way to handle their differences.
It was a relationship which could have gone wrong if either had been driven by ego but both with 12th house Suns helped in that regard. Pluto in the composite 10th can turn into a power struggle but only when aims for individual glory are pursued. Pulling together they had the capacity to make a considerable difference.
Javier Milei, the right-wing libertarian oddball, Trump and Bosonaro admirer, has won a clear victory in the Argentina elections which some political analysts say is a reflection of the electorate’s desperation for change rather than support of his far-right ideology. He has promised to cut back the Argentinian state to its bare minimum and introduce radical economic reforms. Elon Musk said on hearing of the victory “prosperity is ahead for Argentina,” which just goes to show how warped his judgement is.
Failed economic policies have left Argentina, one of the world’s most perpetually unstable economies, in one of its worst crises yet. Annual inflation is above 140 percent — the third highest rate in the world. More than two in five Argentines live in poverty and the value of the currency has plummeted downwards.
There is nothing in any of the charts to suggest the redeemer has arrived, quite the opposite – details from earlier post 17 August below. He will be sworn in as president on December 10 which has a lacklustre, impractical Sun square Neptune, never a good sign for an administration. With a superficially showy Jupiter opposition Venus and a reforming Uranus trine Pluto.
His own chart, 22 October 1970 12.59pm Buenos Aires (birth certificate) will flounder with tr Neptune (and then tr Saturn) opposition his Pluto Mars conjunction in 2024/2025 and even before then tr Pluto square his Sun for the next 14 months and tr Uranus opposing his hope-for-a-better-society Saturn opposition Venus Neptune this year right through till 2025.
The Argentina 25 May 1810 chart and the Bank of Argentina chart 28 May 1935 are both highly Mutable chart with Gemini Suns and a raft of other Sagittarius, Pisces and Virgo planets – all of which will be deflated by tr Saturn in Pisces through into 2025.
Oddly enough Milei’s relationship chart with Argentina is relatively upbeat in essence with a composite Sun Jupiter trine Pluto so he obviously brings enthusiasm and hope to the table. Though 2026 will bring a more hostile mood when tr Pluto opposes the composite Mars.
Post August 17 2023
In desperate financial straits – again – Argentina threw up an ultra-conservative oddball in the dress rehearsal for the late October general election. Javier Milei, who won over 30 per cent of the vote, is ‘a rightwing libertarian who campaigns like a rock star, lives alone with five mastiffs named after famous liberal economists and claims not to have brushed his hair since he was 13 (he is 52).’
Whoever wins they will inherit a catastrophic economic situation with central bank almost out of reserves and heavy restrictions on foreign exchange. Inflation is running at around 115% and nearly 40 per cent of the population live below the poverty line. A severe drought has exacerbated problems, which the government has used as an excuse for missing all of IMF’s targets for its lifeline programme. Another default looms.
Milei, born 22 October 1970 in Buenos Aires, has a late Libra Sun with a ferociously determined Pluto conjunct Mars; and a head-in-the-clouds, moody, insecure and ambivalent Venus Neptune in Scorpio opposition Saturn in Taurus. His Sun sits on his Neptune/Pluto midpoint which is associated with the supernatural or fantastical beliefs.
His Jupiter in Scorpio caught the recent Lunar Eclipse which would give him a lift. The general election falls on his birthday with tr Jupiter opposition his Jupiter. A win is not inevitable and he looks to be in a degree of turmoil immediately following and in 2024 – though that would be true even if he did win.
The Argentina 25 May 1810 country chart with its Gemini Sun Mars opposition Neptune Saturn in Sagittarius square Pisces Moon Pluto – will be dragged down to earth by tr Saturn in Pisces through 2023/24. The recent Lunar Eclipse rattled the Uranus in Scorpio hinting that a change of course was badly needed.
It is not quite as dire as the 2001 default which happened on the Saturn in Sagittarius opposition Pluto square Mars; and the Solar Arc Pluto squaring the financial Venus in the run up. But it will require considerable sacrifices.
The Bank of Argentina, 28 May 1935, another Gemini Sun square Saturn opposition Neptune, will face a surfeit of Saturn reality checks as well in 2023/24; and a pressured Solar Arc Pluto square the financial Venus. Again not quite as catastrophic as the 2001 default when the Solar Arc Mars squared Neptune and rattled up the T Square with Sun and Saturn; and the tr Saturn opposition tr Pluto added its later of woe.
Antonia Byatt, Booker prize winner for her novel Possession, once described as the most consciously intellectual woman writer since George Eliot, has died. To her intense frustration, what interested the press most about her was her difficult relationship with her younger sister Margaret Drabble, who outshone her at Cambridge and became a bestselling novelist some decades before her.
Antonia was born on August 24 1936 in Sheffield, the eldest of four children, with a circuit judge for a father and a depressed mother who was given to fits of rage because of her restricted life as a housewife. Antonia was ill in bed with asthma for much of her childhood and read voraciously. In later years she was described as ‘unsentimental, uncompromisingly intelligent and with limited capacity for making or enjoying jokes’ and formidable to meet.
She had a Virgo Sun and Neptune, Venus and Mercury also spread out through Virgo, the writers’ sign. Her Scorpio Moon was trine Saturn and trine Pluto, a hint of an ungiving, under-nurturing mother. Her saving grace would be Jupiter in Sagittarius square Venus Neptune in Virgo giving her optimism and an active imagination.
Her sister Margaret Drabble, born 5 June 1939 just before the outbreak of war, is a Sun Mercury in Gemini – another writers’ sign. She has a truly difficult Mars (maybe Moon) opposition Pluto square Saturn in Aries T square; and probably an Earth Grand Trine of Capricorn Moon trine Neptune trine Uranus Venus in Taurus. Like her sister, she was badly affected by their unhappy, melancholy mother. She later remembered: “When I was a child of nine or ten years old, I was so depressed that I used to wish I could die in my sleep.’
She wrote her first novel Summer Birdcage at the kitchen table when she was a young mother in 1963 which explored the relationship between two sisters. Its success and the books following made her one of the leading literary lights of Swinging London. The result for her sister Antonia was a feeling “that I wasn’t a real person, that there was somebody coming who was the real person and that everybody would see I hadn’t been there”.
Antonia’s Booker prize did not come for almost another thirty years but she did pick up a huge readership in the latter half of her career and there were suggestions that Antonia’s late success was driven by a determination not just to escape Margaret’s shadow but to eclipse her in turn.
Their relationship chart had a controlling composite Sun Pluto which would however unconsciously lead to a tussle for the upper hand. There was an emotionally chilly composite Venus square Saturn; a composite Venus sitting on the focal point of a highly strung (and creative) Uranus trine Neptune. And an argumentative Mercury opposition Jupiter square Mars; with Mars also square Pluto.
Competitive Mars often rears its head in sibling stand offs. Olivia de Havilland her sister Joan Fontaine, famously at odds, in their relationship chart had a composite Sun Mars conjunction. As does King Charles and Prince Andrew. Prince William and Harry have a composite Sun square Mars.
Sean Combs – Diddy – the billionaire rapper and record producer, has settled out of court for an unnamed sum a slew of sexual assault allegations from a former girlfriend singer Cassie Ventura with no admission of guilt.
His wide ranging career, drenched with music awards, including founding a clothes retailer, being a brand ambassador for a vodka outlet, and co-founding the television network and news website Revolt in 2013.
He was born 4 November 1969 New York, with a father (former Air Force and and an associate of a convicted New York drug dealer) who was shot dead when Sean was two years old.
His chart was rattled up by recent eclipses with his Mercury in Scorpio opposition Saturn in Taurus in line with the recent Lunar Eclipse; and his Venus Jupiter in Libra catching the Solar eclipse. He does have an intense chart with a Scorpio Sun and Neptune in Scorpio on the focal point of a mini Grand Trine of Mars in Capricorn trine Pluto. The Mars Pluto Neptune a legacy no doubt from his military father with drug connections.
His get-it-together 5th harmonic is exceptionally strong giving him the ability and drive to craft a solid life for himself. His 18H is also ominously notable with overtones of too much pleasure seeking not always from admirable diversions.
Cassie Ventura, 26 August 1986, Connecticut, was in her late teens when she met him and he in his mid thirties and they were together for more than ten years.
She is a Sun Virgo trine Neptune and sextile Pluto giving her an ambitious streak with her Sun square Saturn hinting her determination to be successful was fuelled by low self esteem.
Her Jupiter in Pisces is conjunct his North Node which would bring them together to promote popular trends and her Sun is probably conjunct his Virgo Moon. But her Mars in Capricorn squares his Uranus for a clash of conflicting needs; and her Pluto conjunct his Mercury and opposition his Saturn would lead to no-win discussions and trapped situations.
All of which is repeated in their relationship chart with a controlling composite Sun square Pluto; a power-struggling, resentful and emotionally unhealthy and fraught Venus Pluto square Mars and trine Saturn; a chained together Pluto trine Saturn and an ever hopeful Sun square Jupiter.
He is not moving into an easy few years with tr Pluto conjunct his Mars till late 2024 and then tr Pluto moves onto a discouraging square to his Saturn and Mercury in 2025/26 – which will be trapped, frustrating and scary. The fates doling out a taste of his own medicine perhaps. There are various other allegations from several women which may now be pushed into further action.
Hillary Clinton dropped into Swansea University in Wales along with husband Bill en route to Iceland to promote her co-written novel State of Terror. Bill talks of heartbreak over Israel-Palestine given his years of trying to broker a peace. Hillary has been warning of Trumps’s Hitlerian tendencies and pointing out that Hitler was first elected before he went on his authoritarian spree. She says she genuinely fears for her country.
What is marginally worrisome is that her Mars Pluto conjunction will have moved by Solar Arc to exactly conjunct her Sun come the election in late 2024 and just beyond. That is acutely frustrating, scary and blocked. She will not be a happy lady. It may not be a political disaster she is angsting about – there could be other reasons. Her Solar Return from October 2024 has Mars in the 8th opposition Pluto which could be financial or even health related for someone close to her. She also has tr Neptune conjunct her Pisces Moon in the weeks running into the election and in February 2025 which will be debilitating.
Early in 2024 tr Pluto will square her Sun and oppose her Neptune/North Node midpoint both of which will be acutely pressured and will return in early 2025.
Bill Clinton is being tossed hither and thither at the moment with tr Uranus conjunct his 8th house Taurus Moon exactly now to mid December and again in April 2024. Plus a stuck Solar Arc Sun square his Pluto as he laments the Israel deadlock. That is followed by tr Uranus square his Leo Sun from July 2024 on and off into 2025. That is the same period as the other Middle Eastern charts are on high alert – and the GOP Convention makes their choice.
Wrestling with the mysteries of the 8th house with two headline examples at the moment to chew over in Israel and Prince Harry, Martin Moritz’s book Pandora’s Box offers some perceptive insights.
“The eighth house is associated with entanglements, power games, boundary crossings, or dealing with taboos.”
“It is almost impossible to differentiate between good and evil, black and white, hero and villain. Things are muddled and mixed up.”
The book gives chart interpretations of historical characters from Elizabethan astrologer John Dee, Queen Victoria, through the Third Reich to Elzabeth Kubler Ross and Jane Goodall. He illuminates the different facets of 8th house experience from energy exchange, emptiness and vampiric sucking of energy, money and jealousy, sex and seduction through to resilience and transformation.
He remarks that the clients he sees who have 8th house planets are often ‘unhappy with the present, traumatized by the past, daunted by the future.’ Which fairly sums up Israel’s 8th house Taurus Sun and Prince Harry’s 8th house Virgo Sun.
‘Transformation only happens if there is a considerable shift in an individual’s thought and behaviour patterns.’ The inner saboteur is an 8th house issue along with fixation. Ideas on how things ought to be are stubbornly held onto despite the 8th house being the one which should encompass the values of others.
The 8th is about being possessed where the 2nd is having one’s own possessions. Everything is defined by others. Committing to a partnership requires letting go individual values in order to create new shared ones. What is yours becomes mine and vice versa. A loss of control. The 8th is where we are confronted with our own issues.
The title of the book refers to the 8th house gateway into another world, which like Pandora’s Box, contains evil, vice, sickness and death after it is opened but after all that has been experienced what remains is hope.
Searching around elsewhere for additional clues what seems crucial to an understanding of the 8th house experience is an acceptance that something other than the separate self influences and shapes experiences, development and destiny.
The eighth house is home of Typhon, the volcano god. If the second house has to do with control, then the eighth house has to do with lack of control which tends to lead to an attempt to hang tightly. There is a sense of permanence with the eighth house but only due to the monumentality of change. The individual has ancestral wounds that take not one generation but several to even begin to understand. Planets in the eighth house tend to work in super slow ways.
The 8th house represents that which we fear within ourselves or around us, and seek to restrain, something that is strong enough to take us over if it erupts. Finding a way to distance from the intensity of the full focus is a natural reaction when the centre space is in the “control of the monsters”. The core issue with Typhon seems to be the tension between the independent free expression of individuality and the need to be limited in action by the expectations and agreements of society, with the resulting necessity to control and/or repress aspects of one’s self.
The 8th is the house of “others” when intimate relationships hand over power to a partner whether financial or emotional. It brings a painful awareness of forces beyond individual manipulation and control.
A few celebrity examples with planets in the 8th. Dynastic families in particular seem to figure where the weight of the ancestors looms large.
JFK – Mars, Mercury, Jupiter in Taurus and Gemini Sun.
Actress Glenn Close – Pisces Sun and Mars Mercury.
Farah Fawcett – Sun, Mars, Mercury Aquarius.
Geraldine Chaplin – Moon Sagittarius
Lisa Marie Presley – Mars Moon Chiron in Pisces
Goldie Hawn – Mars Pluto in Leo and Saturn in Cancer on cusp.
Priscilla Presley – Pluto
Marlon Brando Pluto
Ryan O’Neal – Mars
Riley Keogh – Mars
Greta Garbo – Uranus
Gwyneth Paltrow – Uranus
Donald Sutherland – Uranus
Kiefer Sutherland – Uranus Pluto
Prince Frederik of Denmark – Uranus Pluto
Prince Andrew – Mercury
Robert Kennedy – Mercury
Cheyenne Brando – Mercury
Angelica Huston – Mercury and Pluto
Bobbi Christina Brown – Uranus Neptune
Whitney Houston – Neptune
Linda McCartney – Jupiter
Robert Downey Jnr – Saturn
This is a follow on from the October 4 2023 post on Princess Martha Louise where there were many generous and helpful comments from personal experience. Below for ease of finding and also under Princess Martha Louise in search.
33 thoughts on “Princess Martha Louise – a truly 8th house entanglement”
Marjorie
7th October 2023 at 10:30 am | Reply
Sandra, It surely does help and also to others who have shared. I am letting it bubble for a while since I don’t want to read too much into my own close encounters with 8th house family members.
What is churning about in my mind is a Liz Greene comment in her Psychopathology book which I will review shortly. (It is profoundly useful book for ‘ordinary types’ despite its lurid title.) She talks about one women with an 8th house Moon being a ‘channel for inherited conflicts and disturbances’ – in her case Holocaust parents. So what she feels really isn’t hers in a personal sense – it belongs through her parents to a collective turmoil.
The 8th house is blithely talked about as the house of the deeper unconscious and being driven by forces the individual does not understand or can always control. But reframing that as the house that lies beyond the ego and the separate self – it therefore takes down boundaries between I and ?? – what lies beyond. What Jung called the collective unconscious. Which is a churning mass of impulses, good and bad, belonging to all humankind.
So it may be the ‘monster’ which 8th house individuals feel resides within them is not ‘them’ at all. They are too identified with/flooded by the bubbling cauldron of the seven deadly sins (and virtues) which afflict all humankind. I am struggling to articulate it but it is beginning to formulate. It is one of the problems of the deeper unconscious that it lies far beyond the rational world and is therefore difficult/impossible to encapsulate in words.
Maybe it is why the other 8th house astrology book, which also needs reviewed is called Pandora’s Box. Best to keep the lid firmly snapped shut may be some 8th house individual’s defence against what might be let loose if they opened up. Almost like piling sandbags on the sea wall to keep the ocean at bay.
Again many thanks.
Sandra
7th October 2023 at 3:28 pm | Reply
🙂
I am smiling!
Yes, yes and more yes!!…..
Even as a child, I KNEW that what I was feeling inside was somehow more than just me, more than even just my parents and their story. But I had no words or knowledge of how to explain that.
In the early 90’s I attended a Process Oriented Psychology Intensive with Arnie Mindell. POP is based on Jungian psychology, Daoism and Physics!!… well THAT appealed to me. A psychology that covered everything, allowed everything (with a kind of fluidly held container) and respected everything as valuable in some way. This was a profound gift.
“piling sandbags on the sea wall to keep the ocean at bay”….. oh my.
My husband has often said that me doing that just makes it all worse!!!
Now THAT is funny, isn’t it?
I wanted to say that this isn’t all doom and gloom. The 8th house journey is fascinating, rich, and revealing! There is plenty of humour in all of this!
And…I also see it as a deep responsibility to explore and integrate this energy because it matters to the World. As I just read in your post about Israel and the Hamas… violence begets violence. Those of us with a strong 8th house.. we each can send out a different, healing Plutonian ripple.
At least, that’s one way to do it!!
Thanks so much Marjorie…. this has been a drop in my own Plutonian healing.
I, too, will pause and ponder… and read Pandora’s Box!!
You do offer such a gift to us all.
Marjorie
7th October 2023 at 4:22 pm | Reply
Have you any clue as to why you explored the depths of your 8th house and others don’t? Stupid question I know since it happens not just with 8th house issues.
Sandra
11th October 2023 at 4:55 am | Reply Hello dear Marjorie,
I am sorry for the delay in replying… might be moot by now!
The pre and post Thanksgiving comings and goings took up some time. Plus… this IS a $64,000 question and tracking an answer took me down many paths!
It’s so hard NOT to think of my astrology in answering… my chart perfectly describes my hard wiring for sure. All roads lead to my final dispositor of Mars in Aries in 3rd, which is the point of a kite for an air grand trine… directly opp. Jupiter in Libra in 9th. A seeker. A lot of courage.. often reckless with that!… but gets me going “fearward” for sure. SO many blessings with the right people or course at the right time. So my 8th House collection has had a lot of help.
To NOT use astrology? What then?? hmmm…..
The Nature Nurture question maybe?
My Dad would often say, “I just want to live long enough to know that my two girls can survive anything”. He regularly spoke of how HE had survived in the War… he did some awful things. I was not raised to get a good education. I was raised to be strong, to survive.. to think and to be responsible…. from a young age. We did play as kids, but work and responsibilities came very young.
And lastly… even with all this, by age 24 I was overweight, deeply depressed and having suicidal thoughts. I worked night shift with an older woman and one night I shared this with her. She leaned in close, looked me in the eyes, and said,
“That’s GREAT!! Great that you are depressed!!! NOW it gets interesting!! NOW you can go deep and discover who you are!!!”
She said it with so much joy and acceptance and PERMISSION that it stunned me.
Who says that about despair and suicide?
It worked because that exchange confirmed what my instinct knew… that ALL of this is important and meaningful and not to be judged bad or good. As Arnie Mindell would say… “teleological”… it all has a purpose…
even the darkest corners of who we are.
THAT set me on this path, Marjorie.
A path of freedom and a discovery of Truth….. truly the Mystery.
I’m reading a novel now… The Secrets Between Us.
On the back cover is this quote,
“It isn’t the words we speak
that make us who we are.
Or even the deeds we do.
It is the secrets buried
in our hearts.”
I think that’s what really in the Pandora’s Box of the 8th House!!! surprise!
but now?…. we are deep in the Israel / Hamas horror…. Pluto opens it’s doors again.
all the best,
thanks again
Curious
11th October 2023 at 11:27 am
Wow, Sandra, what a gift that older woman gave you.
I agree that depression can be a great gift if we tend to it with wisdom and patience.
So different from the mainstream tendency to try to medicalise it away.
Marjorie
11th October 2023 at 11:55 am
Thank you so much for this. What a wonderful story – it can be such a chance encounter that opens up a life and yet others maybe never have them or they do have them and ignore.
My head is scrambled with Israel at the moment but I will pull all the comments together and do another piece when my brain settles back down. Who’d have thought an odd Norwegian princess would spark all this off.
Again thank you and all power to you.
Marjorie
12th October 2023 at 9:42 am
Sandra, Pondering on depression it reminded me of psychoanalyst Melanie Klein’s writings on the depressive position. She thought it was central to the child’s development, first experienced early on in the first year of life and repeatedly revisited intermittently throughout life.
Maturity, she thought was closely linked to facing up to and accepting loss and mourning. Working through, embracing and eventually overcoming/emerging from the depressive position should be regarded as a significant achievement. ‘Feel the pain and work through it.’ Not all are capable of it and many put up a bulwark of defences against it – which is presumably why they shut off any possibility of insight or the capacity for change.
It will affect non-8th housers as well but it may be more prevalent given the depths of the 8th house which it takes real courage and resilience to descend to the depths and re-emerge.
The ones I know well with 8th houses who put up a blank exterior are defensively cheerful and get distinctly snappy if pushed to look at any negatives.
Thank you again.
Lizzie
7th October 2023 at 3:53 pm | Reply
I want to thank you for this. I’m going to sit with it for a while. Very helpful for me, for all the times I’ve seen Death coming and couldn’t stop it. The guilt. The most high profile was John Lennon — I was at the Dakota the day before he died, saw the Angel of Death on the rooftop, tried to get to Lennon to warn him. Years later, in a book, I discovered I was standing next to his killer while talking to the security guard. My guilt went on for decades. I couldn’t save him! Neptune in the 8th, I’ve got to SAVE everyone. But maybe it wasn’t me at all, maybe I’m just picking up a signal, I didn’t have to save him. Well I’m never going to believe that, but this idea that I’m just a channel for the collective and it isn’t “me” at all….I appreciate that.
Gnarly Dude
8th October 2023 at 8:20 pm | Reply
Marjorie you wrote “– it therefore takes down boundaries between I and ?? –” … I don’t know if you intended this as a question but while 8th house is often labelled as “House of other people’s values” which makes sense because once you’ve decided in the 7th house that the person superficially meets your requirements (nice house, job, looks, appearance, polite); it is what happens next when you want to progress the relationship. So the big question is “do we share the same values?” or even “will you consider changing yours to match mine?” (or vice versa). I’d say It’s fairly clear most people never really think that deeply about their compatibility beyond the 7th house level and then wonder why their marriage fails. Even if they don’t divorce, it can be the old couple where they grow apart, argue or he goes off fishing or washes the car every weekend to get out of the house rather than spend time together.
But I’ll add that for me 8th house is also about “give and take”. How the two people in a relationship balance those things. My Neptune wants to give and give and give, and especially when I was younger it didn’t want to take because on some level it knows there is a cost when you accept from others i.e. a debt. And once you’re indebted, you have less freedom by being tied to the relationship whereas Neptune wants to remain free. So it gives selflessly and while there is no expectation of being paid back, it always gives the native the “get out” clause especially if they want to see themself as the victim … “after all I’ve done for you”.
Many relationships revolve around one partner doing all the giving and the other doing all the taking. Eventually, one day twenty years down the road, the giver realises they’re being taken for granted and leaves. The taker is then left bereft for obvious reasons. This is particularly demonstrated by individuals with Saturn in 8th. If they give anything to to the relationship, it’s only material and there is a careful mental note and balancing of the books. If they start to perceive too much being asked of them, they withdraw and just do what is expected, ticking the box without making any deeper commitment or effort. They volunteer no more to the relationship than they have to. There is no emotional communication or respect being given and to use the classic Saturn in 8th metaphor, the partner then stops wanting to have sex with them.
Anyway – not sure if that is helpful or all old news to you. Just thought I’d mention it in case.
Marjorie
9th October 2023 at 10:12 am | Reply
Thanks that makes a great deal of sense – I’ll come back to it later. Far too much going on at the moment.
Marjorie
11th October 2023 at 11:58 am | Reply
Sorry still distracted – I will tie this in when I find time to review Pandora’s Box which suggests that energy exchange is a key 8th house ability/necessity.
Crabby Old Leo.
5th October 2023 at 7:11 pm | Reply
A friend’s husband has an 8th house Neptune in Scorpio. He also has BML in Scorpio there.
I thought an 8th house Neptune was supposed to be deep and mystical and a sexual healer and all that, but no, apparently, definitely not. Reading the comments here, I never realised being “all on the surface” was typical of 8th house people, but that’s exactly what he’s like!
Sadly, she exploits him financially but he doesn’t seem to notice, or care. Typical apparently for an 8th house Neptune.
I have an 8th house Chiron in pisces opposite my Pluto in Virgo, and also widely opposite my Leo Sun. It’s a very, very difficult placement in ways I don’t want to elaborate on.
Gnarly Dude
5th October 2023 at 5:47 pm | Reply
I’ve got Scorpio 7th / Sag 8th with Jupiter-Neptune on the cusp of the 8th. I have always been fascinated by other people – their ideas, their likes, their interests etc. I have always wanted a deep and meaningful relationship. I can get absorbed in other people if they have something interesting to share. I didn’t really have many of my own ideas when I was younger – so maybe that’s some of the shallowness/opaqueness Marjorie mentions.
Recently though I’ve come to realise, and this is probably an age thing, I get very bored of other people very quickly. They tell me their stuff and then on subsequent meetings they just repeat the same stuff over and over. If I’m not learning from them, I lose interest. I wonder if Princess Martha has something like this going on with Durek – all his 9th /10th house energy having much to tell but blinding her to his real nature.
Trouble is while I’m a great listener, I notice they’re not interested in knowing about me or what I have to teach them – Jupiter-Neptune Sag. People never seem to ask me anything about me, what I do, who I am etc. I can start telling them stuff and I see the shutters coming down.
I’ve begun to suspect my listening skills and knowledge retention scare people off. If you’ve told me a story or a detail about you, I’ll remember it. I synthesise what they tell me and I think the reformatted version breaks through their awareness level and panics them. 8th house Sag foot in mouth even though it’s not taboo subjects, just stuff they’re uncomfortable with.
There is much more with the 8th house planets being in a t-square. The empty leg is being hit by transiting Saturn in Pisces at the moment and I notice I am becoming much more selective in what I say, ask and reveal about myself. Drawing up better boundaries to stop wasting my energy on people who will ultimately not give me what matters to me. That’s the trouble with 8th house neptune, it does a lot of giving but doesn’t expect or ask for much in return. It absorbs other people’s values – I have had to work at figuring my own out.
When Saturn went through seven years ago, I realised money and material stuff is much more important to other people in relationships, whereas for me it has always been about the intangible quality of the relationship. I stopped making the effort when buying presents to get the best possible gift that they would appreciate and be meaningful to them. No-one seemed to mind and buying presents went from anxiety about making the perfect selection to just grab something off the shelf or send the godchildren money. Huge weight off my shoulders! I guess that’s where my idealism lay.
Lizzie
5th October 2023 at 5:10 pm | Reply
Moon/Neptune in Scorp in the 8th, ruler of the chart. Near-death experience as a teenager left me with the ability to see Death coming. It’s not a psychic ability that makes a person particularly popular. I would tell you more about my life, but I can’t bear to reveal myself. LOL. I bought the book, BTW. Very interesting and one of the charts in the book is the French impressionist Gustave Caillebotte, my absolute favorite painter of all time. Everything was in the 8th house with him, I didn’t know. Consciously.
Trish
5th October 2023 at 6:12 pm | Reply
Pluto in Leo in the 8th- like a lot of my generation, although square mars in scorpio. Not easy. I have always been drawn to situations/ careers involving death/ people’s emotional pain probably due to my own personal experiences and have had to learn to control some intense emotional feelings, not always succesfully. Whatever I go through people always say that I will win through- and I do eventually seem to.
I understand that this placement can offer considerable hidden power. Having watched a close relative, with most probably pluto in the 8th house, also, I have seen how destructive uncontrolled aggression can be. I am not usually seen as controlling but have often found myself trapped in situations- until something( probably jupiter) rescues me. The challenge for this placement I think is to be able to harness the knowledge gained through personal experience- and rejuvenation from it- to help other people, rather than to harm them.
Sandra
6th October 2023 at 5:59 pm | Reply
Hello Trish. Ah yes.. Pluto in the 8th… it’s something isn’t it? I think of it as The Fox in the Henhouse. In Placidus, my 8th house is huge from early Leo to the end of Virgo. Pluto in the 8th at 0 Virgo, preceded by a Merc/Uran conj. in early Leo, just in the 8th. Thank goodness my Pluto is trine my Moon and has no challenging aspects! Still, it’s bee quite a ride… a life of many, many crises! I am happy to have a lot of Fire, Sag rising and a strong Jupiter.. whew!!
Marjorie… when I read your observation, “a living on the surface opaqueness”, I immediately had a picture of Princess Diana in my mind! It got me thinking…
A heavy 8th house means a direct relationship with the Taboo… direct. It’s IN you and you KNOW it from a very young age. Certainly my family history of war and displacement and deep suffering describes something of that Pluto in the 8th. I honestly felt like I had been in the war… viscerally felt that.
When young, I knew I had both Good and a kind of Evil in me. I felt like I had a Hitler in me and, if I did, then everyone did! So there is a deep suspicion and wariness of other people… that they are hiding this part of themselves and that that is dangerous.
However, it is also that I knew I was dangerous to others! That my Plutonian access to raw, unfiltered emotion was direct and sudden…. huge anger, huge desire to lash out in a destructive way.,, even to kill! Of course, this is completely unacceptable in a civilized society, so it MUST be controlled, kept hidden… managed. Thank God for the bloodiest of Grimm’s fairy tales. I read them obsessively as a child… they presented a kind of answer to my struggle with Good and Evil in me. Not logically but in some deeper way. I am soooo grateful I did not grow up with pink and purple and cute Disney characters!!
If I really let this part of me show, I scare the hell out of people. I have only one friend who I can share this with since she, too, is the same. VERY few people can accept this Plutonian energy… it is dangerous. Even my husband is too tender hearted to really take this part of me in.
So that opaqueness you see? For me it is likely for at least 2 important reasons. Most importantly… To protect the other person. And, two. To protect myself. Because this energy is so taboo, it is often projected ONTO a person with a strong 8th house… on to me. Many people will have planets that, by synastry, will sit in my 8th house. That seems to open an uncomfortable at best, and dangerous, at worst door in the other person. They will think and say and do things that reveal THEIR shadow.. often very suddenly… and they cannot hold that in themselves. So it must then be projected onto the Other.
In Nature?…. this raw, instinctual energy simply exists. It’s not judged. Humans dance at the edges of this… BDSM, etc. But we cannot let it just express as it might want to!!
I think this is why a strong 8th house person MUST go deep into their own darkest corners, resolve or integrate them.. so THEY can hold a taproot in these circumstances. It’s also a good idea to find healthy avenues of expression for this energy…. a career in psychology, martial arts, etc.
Still… I almost never feel free to simply BE the total of who I am.
And so, I can appear distant.
Marjorie
6th October 2023 at 7:01 pm | Reply
Sandra, That is very helpful. Thank you for sharing. I will mull over and revert maybe tomorrow. It is beginning to make some sense. The ones I was thinking about that I know seem fixedly almost desperately determined to keep everything light, bright and superficial. Push to go deeper and you (the outsider) meet a wall of hostile resistance which may be fear of as you say exposing what lies down in the darkness.
Sandra
7th October 2023 at 2:13 am
You are welcome, Marjorie.
Certainly I have always had a feeling that if people REALLY got to know me more deeply, they would see that Shadow in me… and turn away and even be repelled. That I am a monster! I was most certainly a sweet and nice child/adult…a people pleaser. Seeking love but terrified of rejection.
That hostile resistance, the opaqueness… yes… I’ll bet it’s Fear. Fear of that coming out of them, or coming AT them. It is also, ultimately, a fear of BEING powerful.. what that would really take in me? The vulnerability of being exposed TO GETTING KILLED if I step up to a place of power. That is incredibly real.. again… deep in the lower chakras!
I work one on one as a health professional. I also am an astrologer. Both those jobs… my 10th house… offer me a safe place to let that 8th house depth and honesty connect with my heart and offer a safe place for my client. There is a freedom in that context for Pluto to be freer!!
thanks for listening,
this has truly been my Life’s Work, I’d say.
hope it helps some
Trish
7th October 2023 at 7:19 pm | Reply
That’s really interesting and fascinating Sandra. Thank you.I have pluto tri my moon , lots of fire, Sagittarius ascendant and a strong Jupiter too!!! Mars in Scorpio in my 10th house and a strong fascination with psychology. Also an awareness that astrological knowledge and insight has to be used carefully and benignly as the power it gives over someone vulnerable can be used to damage them emotionally if a reading is not given with the best of intentions.
Marjorie
5th October 2023 at 9:36 am | Reply
Thank you to all who shared. I will return to it when I review Pandora’s Box soon.
What has always puzzled me since I have family members and several friends with significant 8th house planets is that their ‘secrecy’, not surprising from 8th house, comes across as a living-on-the-surface opaqueness. Almost as if they did not have an interior life, which clearly can’t be true, but the reluctance to share does project a blankness which is unsettling. In certain cases I wonder if the interior life is closed off altogether because of an acute fear of what inner exploration and insight might bring.
The 8th house is always written up as the place of transformation and regeneration but the ones I can think of have an unchangingess, which may be partly the dislike of letting go – but it can last a lifetime. There is no sense of evolution.
Being a highly Uranian, Mercurial, endlessly curious jitterbug it has always puzzled me.
“A” Fan
5th October 2023 at 12:11 am | Reply
I like the reader quiz survey – maybe a fruitful periodic thing to feature ( said the 8th house Sun occupant and lover of secrets and investigation)
Geraldine
4th October 2023 at 8:24 pm | Reply
Thank you Marjorie, 8th House with Sun 28° Pisces plus North Node Chiron Moon between 0° and 3°Aries: it is just one slice of the pudding, Lady and it is not always a piece of cake! As of today, I am still grateful for ALL I have experienced (in 18 countries) from the forceps eclipse birth up to now, currently very much through life transition, staying with family members and praying for another dwelling solution as early as possible == I’ve paid extra attention to what others did not notice, from an early age, I am mesmerized by the Emptiness of It all during exceptional visible & invisible encounters who remind me of Grace exactly here on Earth. So perfect! I may act/speak/write/draw too much in hover mode though…but I do cook/clean precisely carefully minutely (Virgo rising!)
Kim
4th October 2023 at 7:48 pm | Reply
Using Placidus, six planets in the 8th house. Sun Virgo (1°) conjunct Venus Virgo (0°) Mars Leo (29°) with Pluto Leo (26°) and Jupiter Leo (15°). Mercury Virgo (19°). Came out of the womb asking why. Existentialist. Intense. Serious. Hate being controlled which can be that Venus/Mars conjunction. Fiercely independent. Very honest. Always seeking more information. Fascinated with occult. Made money not through inheritance as Pluto would suggest but from working very hard (Saturn in 10th) and through corporations. Gifted with written word. I’ve tried to study this stellium in the 8th and quizzed many a professional astrologer. After six decades of living with it, my conclusion is that the journey is not an easy one, but the destination always works out.
“A” Fan
5th October 2023 at 1:21 am | Reply
“… the journey is not an easy one, but the destination always works out.”
~ and then ya die! says this 8th House Sun+Jup resident. I too love a good info dig, but Nope on freely sharing my honest takes (kudos to u -unproudly I admit omission is my most common form of lying). Hiding and social escape hatches feel like survival to me ( tho isolation is no friend ). Sunset to dawn are my favorite hours. Death plus a side of sex routinely infiltrates my thoughts. And h a n g i n g on is my unwanted superpower (romantically hellish when it ends, and carrying resentment gets heavy).
I love depth and a good mystical plunge. And I cackle when mistaken for a Scorpio (ha!). But I feel for ze princess. How rare to feel comfy enough to open the door and not fear banishment for the intensity! To have a hand to reach for while peering through the darkness.
I suspect the mess that churns up when diving deep is what scares “non residents” away – and feels lonesome/rejecting for us occupants to witness – but it’s the light beyond that draws ….like there is a secret tunnel of light at the very bottom of the ocean if I just f u l l y dive thru. How rare to feel one can share that oxygen with another. I imagine the tall dark foreigner feels like her potent and sacred ally.
To the mystical rich 8th house – may the wealth of rejuvenating regeneration visit us all.
Leagee October 2023 at 7:34 pm | Reply
You’ve described an 8th house person perfectly, Marjorie, especially my granddaughter (22/11/89 Lincoln, UK, 16:25) She has a stellium in her 8th house in Capricorn with Uranus at 3°, Neptune and Saturn at 10 and 11° opp her Jupiter at 9° Cancer, then Venus at 16° Capricorn opp her Chiron at 16° Cancer. She is indeed ‘exceedingly stubborn and impervious to either advice, argument or evidence’ which has cost her many friendships and some partnerships, but she is unable to see this herself as she always believes she is right. She is also a rather unlucky person with unfortunate things happening in her life over which she has no control. We, her family love her dearly, of course, but she’s hard work.
Jed
4th October 2023 at 5:16 pm | Reply
Using the Koch system I have Sun ( Virgo 16) conjunct North node/mercury(Virgo 23)/Pluto (virgo 6) and Venus( Libra 7) in 8th house, I would describe myself as intense, open-minded, and a truth seeker but perhaps gullible. I hang on too long to things but am grateful when finally I let go.
(8/9/60 5.25pm Rochford Essex, England)
MK
4th October 2023 at 3:16 pm | Reply
You have done my chart before. I have Saturn in 8th house Gemini, born 5 Dec 71 at 1:45 am, Rio de Janeiro. In my case I think I struggle with communication. I grew up with grandparents and I feel that I have intimacy issues, I am afraid of losing myself in relationships. I have worked in Financial Services and have looked after “other people’s money”. My father was a Scorpio, obstetrician and I only met him a few times. My Saturn in Gemini opposes my Neptune in Sagittarius and I always meet people who hit this aspect, mainly making a conjunction with their planets such as Moon, Venus, Mercury and Mars to my Neptune. I always struggle with debts as well due to overspending. My Cancer (ex-) partner never has a proper job and I have to rely on myself. I tend to have a lot of connections with Gemini people and my son is Gemini too. Saturn in 8th: I have experienced sexual assault in adulthood and other similar issues during my childhood. I have close relationships with Sun Pluto opposition people, such as my aunt and son.
