May and Trump – puppets dancing on fate’s string



This is thinking in progress about the swings and roundabouts of fate which seem (to me) to dance Theresa May and Donald Trump’s respective fortunes to the same rhythm, despite them being massively different personalities with widely divergent agendas.

Both profited from the Saturn square Neptune in 2016. She, by serendipity and neat footwork slid into No 10; and he by megaphone promises to the forgotten many who felt ignored by the political elite. That both were and are duplicitous is a tragedy but nonetheless their presence on the global stage was the consequence of a deeper seismic shift of which they became the unwitting agents.

Jeremy Warner in a cogent Telegraph piece argues that Brexit: ‘was a popular rebellion that united elites and “left behinds” in grievance against a system seen to be failing on multiple fronts.’  ‘It was never about trade. It was about the need to belong and for people to have some sense of control over their own lives.’ A scream of despair and a massive protest vote ‘over the failure of political leaders to in any way challenge the status quo and make fundamental changes to people’s lives.’

Saturn Neptune, amongst other attributes, crops up for peasant uprisings, workers’ revolts and accompanies rumbles of discontent from the underdogs of society, including women. On the back of the revolutionary Uranus square Pluto running since 2012, it fostered the populist movements which have been burgeoning elsewhere in Europe. And where Brexit is concerned, it eroded the old left-right political split, bringing together those of different ideological beliefs.

Even more significantly, running powerfully in parallel is Pluto in Capricorn, battling since 2008 to transform old systems of government and collapse structures that were past their sell-by date to clear the ground for better to rise from the ashes. For this brief pivotal moment in 2016 the Saturn Neptune square turned up to edge the process along since Neptune dissolves and undermines the status quo which Saturn rules.

Standing back to see Trump, not as the deformed personality he undoubtedly is, but as a necessary instrument to fuel the changes that are ongoing isn’t easy but is revealing. He is, ironically, for example fostering the entry of many more women into political office; and the #metoo movement gained from the outrage about his pussy-grabbing comments. A million miles from his intention but a definite result.

He is also in his narcissistic rage running roughshod over the USA political system and constitution, with different results to the UK/EU, but the damage he is doing may well be irreparable.  Looked at one way that is a catastrophe. Looked at another way, his wrecking-ball presidency may be what was needed to kick-start the reduce-to-ground-zero-and-rebuild process. I go back to Kissinger’s thought that Trump is the sort of personality who unknowingly turns up at the end of a phase. In his words ‘an accident’ or put another way a necessary evil. May is much the same given her wobbly pedestal overlooking the most important moment in UK politics for more than half a century.

Pluto still has five or six years to run in Capricorn, with what is effectively a triple conjunction with Saturn and Jupiter in 2020. So wide-ranging shifts are likely – politically and financially/economically – of more than the usual run-of-the-mill variety.

To go back to May and Trump – both are opportunists, one politically, the other in business. Chancers whom fate tossed up on the crest of a wave against all the odds. Both are incredibly stubborn and secretive. Trump is certainly paranoid and therefore untrusting, which is also a facet of Saturn Neptune. And May is as well otherwise she wouldn’t withhold information from her Cabinet never mind the electorate. In different ways both are control freaks. [As an aside I’m starting to get seriously irritated by her autocratic approach to any possible Plan Bs. A flat NO to any other option isn’t in her gift as minority leader. And refusing to publish the full legal advice on Brexit is beginning to smell like Blair and Iraq.]

There’s a risk on this line of argument in assuming their blundering will ultimately turn out for the best. It may not. The astrological influences have no moral intent, nor do they always end in a satisfactory closure. Uranus Pluto rebellions can end up in anarchic chaos, or with savage repression as power-hungry Pluto regains its grip. Peasant revolts most often ended with total defeat and executions. On which note I heartily recommend CJ Sansom’s Tombland, just out, a historical novel set against Ketts Revolt of 1549, which is too long but excellent. Over the centuries English society did become more civilized. But it was a teeth-grindingly slow process with no defining moment of enlightenment for the elites.

Trump may outlast May but both are in the mire at the moment and facing increasing setbacks and failures in 2019.  A victory won on the back of Neptune was always going to run the risk of turning into a mirage; or put another way have foundations built on a swamp. That’s especially true of May since her 2017 Term chart has a Full Moon square Neptune.   On her personal chart her Mercury is conjunct her Neptune/Pluto midpoint – unable to think independently, plans incapable of realisation. And her Neptune is conjunct her Mercury/Saturn midpoint which says much the same.

Yet both are pivotal to their country’s destiny. May’s Libra Sun is conjunct the UK 1801 Ascendant. Trump’s midheaven is conjunct the USA First President MC, with his Mars exactly conjunct the USA First President Ascendant. And Trump’s Saturn Venus in Cancer sits on top of the USA 1776 Mercury in Cancer opposition Pluto – which latter will be key to the tumultuous events in the USA around 2020 and on to the Pluto Return in 2022/23. He’ll either be a central player or his actions now will be the trigger for what will happen then.

Plucked out of obscurity to strut and fret their role as puppets of the influences which will dictate their country’s destiny.


17 thoughts on “May and Trump – puppets dancing on fate’s string

  1. Excellent article Marjorie, thank you.

    It looks likely Trump will outlast May. May has only a few weeks or months left. Parliament has her measure and the sensible ones are now working together.

    Trump will cling on supported by the GOP despite Mueller’s best efforts. Mueller still has a while to run.

  2. Marjorie,

    Do you honestly believe Donald Trump (who is a total idiot) might “out last” Teresa May (who is just as despicable…but is at least a traditional politician who is more articulate, more intelligent, and has more education than Donald Trump)?

    I believe just the opposite. Teresa May appears to be the one who’d likely outlast Donald Trump. May, at least, appears to have some common sense and is capable of actually governing.

    I don’t agree with Teresa May or her politics….but as someone who has live under and endure Trump’s “reign of terror” these past two years (I also live in conservative state [Florida] that has fallen deeper into Republican control), I’d much rather be living under someone like Teresa May than Donald Trump (if given the choice).

    I know you mentioned the role Capricorn will be playing in 2020 and I also know Capricorn is considered a conservative planet. However, that doesn’t necessarily have to mean Teresa May and Donald Trump will benefit from it.

    For example, here in the states, our Democratic Party (which is my party affiliation by the way) is more diverse and even more complex than the Republican Party. There are liberal / progressive Democrats, centre-left Democrats (like myself), moderate Democrats, centre-right Democrats, and even some conservative Democrats.

    So, I’m thinking if Capricorn is going to continue having a strong influence in 2020, then perhaps our Democratic Party might nominate a more centre-right type of candidate who could defeat Donald Trump.

    I know many far-left people think Hillary Clinton (whom I supported in 2016 and still support) is a “centralist” Democrat….but she’s actually further to the left than she’s been given credit for. Regardless, it’s unlikely she’ll run for president again in 2020 (I would like to see her get a cabinet position though).

    Anyway, there will likely be a few “centralist” and “conservative” Democrats who will be running for president in 2020. For example, Montana’s current governor, Steve Bullock (a conservative Democrat), has said he’s considering running for president in 2020. He might be a candidate who could defeat Trump.

    Also, former Secretary of State and Democrat John Kerry (whom I voted for back in 2004 when he ran for president against the incumbent “Baby Bush) has also said he’s thinking about running for president again (I hope he does; I like Kerry). John Kerry is fairly moderate Democrat and he definitely could beat Trump.

    All in all, Trump does have a “personality cult” (which is sick) but I don’t think that will be enough to save him. The economy will likely crash before 2020 (it always does when Republicans are in power) and when the economy goes….so does the party in charge.

    So, I’m thinking we might get a conservative-leaning or very moderate Democrat elected for President in 2020.

    Chris Romero
    Jacksonville, Florida

  3. The UK only got the Brexit vote as it was never expected to happen.It was a rebellion by a silent majority. MP’s never saw it coming as they have been deaf to voters for years. It also reflects how they MP’s have hid behind EU laws as an excuse for everything to silence us and any concerns.No one voted for EU rule. It shows how frustrated and angry voters have been. It also shows, not only the ignorance and deafness of MP’s, but from most of the media that is London based to the rest of the country.It also shows how divided it is now. Jeremy Warner is spot on.MP’s will be answerable to thier constituents who voted out.

    Most people cannot afford a passport so will never travel to Europe to see it. Free movement is nothing to them as if its not beneficial
    Paris, at the moment are protesting and rioting. Historically , thier governments will listen to them. The British do not really riot and if they protest march its organised- then ignored.The media decide who and what they report on and its rarely on Europe. But, increasing other news is being seen on other TV channels and online. People are realising how limited our news is.

    I like to think of Brexit as a silent revolution and a huge protest vote regardless of whether I agree with it or not.Maybe the people do know whats best for us. Power to the people.

    Looking forward to your next post on the UK.

    • “Most people cannot afford a passport so will never travel to Europe to see it. Free movement is nothing to them as if its not beneficial.”

      Are you serious? An UK passport costs 75 pounds. A flight with a lowcost company in Europe often less. A Brit spends, in average, 10 nights a year abroad. There 15 million visitors to Spain ALONE from The UK in 2017. And 7 other EU countries had more than 2 million (France had almost 9 million, Italy 5 million) British visiting the same year. Yes, some Brits never leave the country, but this is hardly a question of social standing. A package holiday for a week in Spain will cost less than a weekend in London for someone from Northern Industrial Towns. In pre-2008 times, even people on social security could travel, and did travel (unemployed tend to gave time).

      What will, undoubtably, affect British people’s capacity to travel is the slide of pound. We’re already seeing this with British cancelling their holiday season trips to Nordic Countries (the excuse being lack of snow, but somehow, only holiday charter flights, and only from The UK, get cancelled, celebrities with private jets still arrive). And this is only going to get worse, when imported rted goods too will become more expensive for British consumers.

      • Yes I am serious and I am saying people cannot afford to travel to Europe. £75 is a lot of money to some people. A lot of people in this country can not even afford food.We now have food banks in our country because of the deprivation people are facing.There are at least 2,000 food banks in the UK. We also have a housing crisis with many homeless.

        Yes I agree that travel to EU is often cheaper than London,which is more expensive than Spain but I am aware that many people in this country cant afford a holiday full stop.I grew up in the Industrial North and we got a day trip away for a holiday at it was the local seaside. We never had holidays and I couldn’t afford many holidays for my children either as we couldn’t afford Xmas for them if we did.It would cost me £375 for passports for my family before a flight and hotel etc .And most people in my community with were the same.

        I am so glad that that you know so many people who have been able to travel so well.I am now very lucky to be in a position that I am able to travel to the EU if I want, but I also can appreciate those who cant and do not.

    • Unfortunately the ones who will suffer from frankly any kind of Brexit, hard, soft or something else, will be the poorest in the UK. It’s going to be an economic jolt, despite all of Boris’s easy-peasy hot air fantasies.

    • I agree with so much you say. As a southerner living in the Northern city of Sheffield I have seen at first hand how ignored the north of England is politically, and how the EU has made this worse, introducing a new level of distance between the governors and the governed. It has also, in my opinion, resulted in the British MPs being downgraded in the things they have to debate and agree as most of it is done by the EU, and the calibre of the civil service has declined also, as once again the level of matters they deal with is largely at the tactical level, rather than the strategic which once again is the prerogative of the EU. Over 45 years, the UK Parliament has become impotent, powerless to challenge and subject to the whims of EU grandees with all their “new ideas”. Only rarely have we stood up for things which are important, like not joining the Euro. I note your point about the British not really rioting, and for a century or more they haven’t, ever since they got the vote in fact. But if you ask them to decide an important point in a Referendum, and it their will is not done, then who knows.

  4. I also think that if things are as bad as they seem withTrump, majority of Tory MPs can be persuated to give May more time by MI6 and Military leaders citing National Security matters.

  5. Trump isn’t well. And no, I’m not talking about a life long personality disorder, but his dementia that obviously took a turn for worse some time late Summer or early Autumn. He has been snubbing public appearances, and when he is there he seems disoriented. This has happened occassionally at least since his early Presidency, but now, on almost every public appearance.

    And while MSM in The US is still largely either ridiculing him or ignoring what’s obviously in the front of their eyes, Russian State TV and, apparently, Putin, have turned on him. They know he is in no shape to push their sanction lifts, and have, apparently, released a second wave of their strategy.

    When former Commanding General of The US Army in Europe says “this does not look good” commenting Russian media coverage, people close to Trump, too, should listen and do what ever needed to remove him (my guess, Republicans will try to make him to resign or at least take a break a là Reagan citing health concerns, and Melania might just be convinced).

  6. Absolutely agree Marjorie.

    No doubt about them nothing being opportunists. The big difference between Trump and May is that the former is a complete political outsider while the latter followed a more traditional route to power having already held a top Cabinet post as Home Secretary under David Cameron. Both are undoubtedly ‘loners’ at heart who don’t have real political allies or constituencies within their own parties.

    May and Trump have benefited because their political rivals, opponents and critics are weakened by being seen as heavily vested in the status quo. One of the reasons Hilary Clinton did not win the Presidency in 2016 was because some voters saw her as simply a machine politician offering more of the same. Similarly attempts to undermine Trump and May by harking back to some supposedly ‘Golden Age’ before the US Presidential election and the British EU Referendum in 2016 are doomed to failure because the harsh fact is it never existed. The current US President and the British Prime Minister may be taking their repective countries on the road to nowhere but their rivals map in most cases has no other destination either apart from going round in circles. That is particularly clear from bankruptcy of ideas in the Brexit debate in the UK where nearly all political parties are pursuing their own sectional rather than the national interest. It also helps to explain why May despite her weak Parliamentary position has survived so long.

    To my mind neither Trump or May are political aberrations. Instead, they are the inevitable result of the world that went before them

  7. I am inclined to think that May will outlast Trump. The noose is tightening around Trump vis a vis the Mueller investigation and he seems to me to be showing signs of dementia. By taking on the presidency Trump has exposed himself and his associates to trouble without end as investigations roll on into all his past business dealings.

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