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Trump & Kim – who will be first among equals?

   

 

Trump is euphoric with what he regards as his unique achievement in bringing Kim Jong Un to the negotiating table with the dangled carrot of North Korea giving up its nuclear programme. Even commentators grudgingly admit only Trump’s idiosyncratic and blustering approach to Kim Jong Un could have produced this surprising turn of events. However caveats are legion. North Korea has ploughed ahead to finish its nuclear testing, even with sanctions removing a third of their already impoverished economy. Nuclear weapons gives them leverage against the USA and protection. Trump’s childish glee in rushing to accept without conditions has two drawbacks. The first is it puts Kim Jong Un on the same footing as Trump. The second is there is no indication of what pre-conditions Kim would demand – for example removing US troops from South Korea and the end of the US-South Korea Alliance. Nor how much access he would allow to check on the denuclearization programme.

One diplomat said: “Kim is not inviting Trump so that he can surrender North Korea’s weapons. Kim is inviting Trump to demonstrate that his investment in nuclear and missile capabilities has forced the United States to treat him as an equal.”

Two things are clear from the astrology. One is that Kim Jong Un’s Leadership chart is undergoing a complete turnaround at the moment with the Solar Arc Uranus exactly square the 10th house Sun Pluto. I had rather hoped that might topple him, but no sign as of that just of this moment. However tr Saturn is conjunct the Leadership Sun Pluto now, repeating twice before the year end, which doesn’t look exactly ecstatic – blocked and discouraged. Tr Uranus will oppose the Saturn come April, and again later in the year into 2019, which looks high-tension, irritable, self-willed, kicking against restrictions. With a slippery, evasive tr Neptune square his Mercury in May and again later into 2019. He will get a lucky break also in May from tr Uranus conjunct the Jupiter. But his way ahead isn’t straightforward or clear cut.

The other astro-point of interest is Rex Tillerson, who only the day before had said negotiations weren’t a realistic option in the near future, only to be contradicted hours later by his chief. He looks more than usually aggravated with Trump at the moment with tr Saturn square their composite Mars, repeating late May and again in the autumn. He looks teeth-gritted also at the moment with tr Pluto trine his Mars/Saturn midpoint and devastated come April with tr Uranus square his Sun/Neptune midpoint; and further unenthused come May.

The offer isn’t on paper, merely passed on by the South Koreans – and to be noted also the proposed Russian gas pipeline through North Korea will give him eastern protection, so less need of an active nuclear programme.

If anything South Korea looks more unsettled with the USA than NK, so there could be a revision of USA involvement there. Anything is possible but the prospect of Trump rushing in to cut a deal must be giving the State Department panic attacks.

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50 thoughts on “Trump & Kim – who will be first among equals?

  1. Dear Chicken Little Buckeye, calm down, the sky isn’t falling. Marjorie asked a question and I answered. Did I say I take Q as the honest truth? No! I can’t vouch that anything he says is true but also you can’t vouch that anything he says is false. So just go with the flow before you have a heart attack from all that wailing and running around. I’m going to ignore you from now on because you purposely misconstrue everything I have said, such a drama queen you are. And I did nothing to offend Larry, very glad he beat cancer and told him so. How you can come up with what you are saying is beyond me. You are triggered because a conservative is in the room but get used to it, I’m not going away. Maybe you have a safe space somewhere to calm down? Not coming back to this thread so no need to answer.

    • Mocking the widowed, the grieving, those with cancer, that’s all on you Deb.

      Why Marjorie has allowed this, I don’t know. Marjorie knows my whole situation, because I sought astrological counsel from her. That she has allowed this disgusting post of yours has really disillisioned me.

      Enjoy being Queen of the damned, Deb. You deserve it.

  2. This thread has outdone the famous Civil War battle, eh larryc? At that time larryc and I went at each other, but now, I cherish him and get a kick out of his jokes. Shows how things can change with an open mind.

    As for Deborah, Dorothy, Deborah, they have layed down their cards for all to see. Q? 4 & 8chan? Spasibo.

  3. Marjorie, Q is someone who began dropping info on 4Chan starting last Oct. No one knows who he is, some believe he is high level military intelligence, others think he is a team of people though it is very obvious he writes in the same style. There is so much info he has dropped that can not be considered a coincidence but he has also said misinformation will be necessary in some instances. He now does his drops at 8Chan. Twitter users love to discuss his drops. Here is an example with explanations of the Forbidden City drops from this past week:
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/971755802686976000.html

    Conspiracy theories? Maybe. But I’m willing to read because so much of what he says does come to pass within a few days or even later. Very interesting if nothing else.

    • 4chan?! 8chan?! You just dropped a bomb on this site. 4chan is a site where the worst trolls and hackers of the worst gather. 8chan is a site started by the original owner of 4chan, after he lost control of 4chan. They released the hacked celebrity nudes during “The Fappening” (taken down, in case anyone wants race there to find them. Gone.) and are known for their malicious hacks and attacks, especially of people who go there.

      This tells me so much about Deborah and Dorothy. People don’t just come across 4chan or 8chan. Not a site for an astrology fan. Can seem ok, since most posts are by teens, but don’t be fooled by that.

  4. Thanks Marjorie, now I understand what was being said about Trump. As someone pointed out here, Q, in one of his recent drops, said Trump had dinner with Kim when he was at The Forbidden City in China. Just an FYI, I have no clue if this is true or not.

      • No one wants to share what Q is, but keeps citing it. Makes me think it might not be a trusted source. Some of these conspiracy sites sound intriguing, then, when on them, are full of ludicrous “happenings”. Might be the same with Q since no one wants to give up a URL.

        As for the Forbidden City dinner, that would have a high number of people involved, from security to food prep to waiters. Will expect it to be confirmed by some news agency, if true. The days are long gone where nobody carried a recording device (smart phone).

        • Or Q is being seeded here. Bring it up, get people to find it, another fake news site in the eye of the public.

          I don’t trust any of them after Assange and Wikileaks became a russian conduit for the presidential election. Even before that, he was on my bs list for promising and never delivering, which is a cheap way of smearing people without evidence.

  5. OMG–Texas teachers going to gun school. Read all about it at DailyMail.com. The NRA rules. Get ready for President LaPierre. Deborah: Your litany of accusations against Hillary–many obviously compliments of Fox News–pale next to the litany I could provide re Trump, but I don’t have the time to write a book.

  6. I do think it’s important to listen to a spectrum of views and not just exist in a comfortable bubble of like-Mes. Apart from anything else it is important to grasp why some leaders get enough votes to take power (electoral college or otherwise.) To some of us at a personal level it is beyond belief that someone of Trump’s temperament and CV would get as far as he did. But he did.
    What does strike me observing what happens when people are challenged is a reluctance to focus on the issue at hand. For example, the Russia thing raises ire in some who think Putin is being smeared. I binned a post last night in response to the Browder post which was raving on about ‘zionazis’ and Western-backed Saudi atrocities in Yemen. Attack Trump supporters and they start spieling on about Hillary. FOCUS. If we’re talking about Russia or indeed about Trump, that’s the issue under discussion, not something else.
    None of us like to admit we made a mistake in our judgement of people. Even worse to face up to the fact that all sides are heavily flawed, so it comes down to ‘the evil of two lessers’. One side being wrong doesn’t make the other right.

    • My very first vote was a mistake—I voted the way my family did. Since then I have voted Dem, GOP, Independent, Libertarian, Rainbow party—whoever has proven skills as a decent public servant, and isn’t riding the wave of discontent. Takes a lot of effort though, not relying on what other’s say. Added to this recently is voting being made moot by technical interference.

      Elon Musk is going to have direct democracy in the Mars colony. Every person votes on every issue. He stated at SXSW conference that his goal is to colonize Mars before the next World War. Hopes to launch a BFR next year, prototype of the rocket needed to go to Mars.

      • Reread this whole thread and see I went off focus with my Elon comment. Sorry. Just wanted to add something hopeful and diffuse the tension.

  7. I’m glad you are a survivor Larry, I’m a nurse and have taken care of those who didn’t survive. Humor is the best way to deal with it if you have the ability to see things from a humorous angle. My mother had a sign that said “those who can laugh at themselves shall never cease to be amused”. It’s a different thing though to use what you think is humor to cut at someone because then it becomes hostility. That is the feeling I get with some of your replies to me, more hostile than humorous. Other opinions should not be threatening, so let’s just call a truce please.

    • Don’t know which Deb this is, but in either case, it’s ugly Deb. Lay off larryc. You gave no right to tell him how to live his remaining years as YOU see fit.

      Last year, I was the sole cancer caretaker of my most beloved, with zero help from anyone else. My level of anger at you is off the charts.

  8. Larry, this is ridiculous, stop the nonsense. Why don’t you comment on the astrology? Do you even understand astrology? I never have seen you say anything but joke type stuff.

    • You see what you want to see. In another couple days, this thread will drop off the map.

      Being a cancer survivor, I joke often in all portions of my life. I have a serious side which is kept to consultations. I also post relevant responses. Even to you.

      • Larryc, say whay you want, do what you want, see my reply above to Anonymous Deborah. You are so lucky to have survived cancer. My loved one did not, and I am drowned in grief every day. To read how casually this person dismissed your ordeal makes me think of Nurse Ratchet, and not a person who is a cancer nurse.

        Stay strong and give them hell. Joke on, brother, joke on.

  9. I’m sure that outrage is directed at me Julie but I’m not going to stoop as low as you to question your intelligence. I think more people should be outraged at Hillary and her deletion of 33,000 emails along with a private server in her bathroom from which she conducted government business, her selling of Uranium to Russia, her looting of Haiti, her laughing about defending a child rapist, her blaming a video on YouTube for her complete mess in Benghazi, her pay for play Clinton Foundation, her complete disrespect of the women her husband raped while now saying we should always believe those women, her pitiful attempt to blame everyone but herself for her loss even though she played dirty tricks with the DNC against Bernie and still couldn’t win, lying about arriving under sniper fire in Bosnia, her sale of high tech secrets to China, Travelgate, Vince Foster, looting the White House and much more, much more. You have no moral or intellectual high ground period. Look at her Mars/PlutoSaturn conjunction, an aspect of control and brutality and you will have everything you need to know about her.

    • Ho, boy. Now we’re back to shouting “Lock ‘er up.” How did this astrological discussion become all about “Hating Hillary”? In true form, Deborah-with-a-D, you return to favorite Trump tactics of name-calling, cat-calling, and lunacy theories. Go back to your troll cave.

      I think I’ll switch to Twinkies, Buckeye – that’ll be my California defense for madness.

  10. Buckeye, I have no personal turmoil, read my first post. I respectfully stated my opinion on North Korea then started getting called a bot. I asked you for a BBC link because I had never heard that DJT was talking to SK and that DJT thought it was Kim. And since you keep dodging the question and I haven’t found a a single mention about this anywhere, I will assume you are joking.

    I have said nothing here that was disrespectful to anyone and Trump being raked over the coals is nothing new and is not giving me heartburn. I think you are threatened by having a conservative give a point of view.

    I will not stop posting here unless Marjorie wants to get rid of me. And Larry, I have not had a “rant and rave” here though you would love to push me to it, but you won’t. Maybe next time instead of calling names, claiming I’m a bot, or trying to get Marjorie to bring out a “banhammer” you could actually come up with some serious rebuttal, or at least some astrology.

    I do think the Solar Arc Uranus squaring the Sun conjunct Pluto in Kim’s leadership chart will topple him and perhaps North and South will be reunified. And if Kim’s natal chart is accurate, solar arc Uranus is now squaring his Sun, definitely big changes in store for him. You might notice the Mercury in Kim’s leadership chart is now opposite Trump’s Sun so perhaps indicating serious talks. Also, depending on if the time for the leadership chart is correct or moved back a few minutes, the ascendant will be conjunct the first house Uranus suggesting a big change but I don’t know if this is just a typical chosen noon birthtime or not.

    In fooling around with Kim’s own natal chart and birthtime a bit, I landed on 7:35 a.m. which is 10 Cap rising. This gives a SA ascendant of 14 Scorpio which squares his natal Saturn of 14 Aq. I landed on this time while trying to get a SA POF of 22 Sag which is opposite Trump’s Sun. Hillary’s SA POF during the election was 22 Gemini which was conjunct Trmp’s Sun. Was surprised to find when arriving at the 22 Sag POF that the ascendant was then square Saturn. This birthtime will make his progressed Moon be 4 Sag, a critical degree, when he meets Trump. This rising degree of 10 Cap reads in the La Volasfera degrees as:

    “Degree 10-11 Capricorn :
    « A roll of parchment, sealed and lying across a scepter » Degree of Authority
    – This is the index of a person who is born to occupy positions of trust and responsibility, most probably in connection with the Ministry, or in a minor degree occupying some office in Government service. The sealed parchments show diplomacy, a taciturn disposition and ability to keep secrets and confidences. The life work will be carried on under conditions which require great secrecy and caution. The nature is reserved and self-reliant. He will rise to positions of authority, and will serve his country and king.”

    There is a bit more but just thought I’d mention a few things not yet mentioned here.

    • “And Larry, I have not had a “rant and rave” here though you would love to push me to it, but you won’t. Maybe next time instead of calling names, claiming I’m a bot, or trying to get Marjorie to bring out a “banhammer” you could actually come up with some serious rebuttal, or at least some astrology.”

      Where have I claimed you are a bot? Looks like someone’s button just got poked 😉 Whew! Flame on! The human torch.

      As we used to say…”she’s cooking with gas!”

    • It was mentioned in several places if you google it – seemingly after his jokey dinner speech a few days back. He appeared to have claimed to speak directly to Kim but seemingly he only spoke to the SK president. Whether it was his attempt at wit or a genuine muddle isn’t clear.

    • “Trump may choose TV personality as new economic adviser”

      Truth is stranger than fiction. You can’t make this stuff up.

  11. Larry, the right thing is giving Mexico and Canada a chance to prove they won’t cheat us.

    Buckeye, I do understand astrology and if you’d like to discuss something about it just let me know. Can’t recall you ever discussing it unless you think things like: “His remaining staff are nuts, bwahaha” counts. My last post was about Davos and I asked Marjorie what she thought about Trump’s progressed Moon in May hitting Hillary’s Mars/Pluto conjunction. What do you think about that? Also I’m waiting for you to post the link from the BBC please. I did google it and found nothing.

    I’m a conservative and I know there is an echo chamber of liberal thought here because I’ve watched most conservatives who try to discuss anything here run off. I respect Marjorie’s long time reputation as an astrologer and come here to learn and have done so for years, way back when she had her old site. I try to discuss things nicely and give a different point of view, but your Trump hatred blinds you and most just want to poke at and make fun of a different point of view. But that won’t deter me. Just ignore what I write if you can’t discuss differing views like an adult and must blame it on bots and Cheeto underlings. I am fine with that.

    • If you are here for the astrology, it should be easy to live and let live as far as politics are concerned. Trump being raked over the coals should not cause so much personal turmoil. It’s him being gigged, not you. But you make it about you when you continously challenge commenters, even down to their name.

      As for humor, it’s been used to ease political tensions as far back as Ben Franklin. Without it, we’re
      nothing but a nation armed to the teeth with no relief valve. It’s what kept African Americans from forming another Sherman’s March, with all the insults, conspiracy theories, and lies aimed at Obama for 8 years.

      Now the tables have turned. “Oh how the mighty have fallen.” Bwahahaha!

      • In previous discussions, Marjorie has allowed differences of opinion to be posted to offer her insight into what makes the comment owners tick. One notable topic was the US Civil War. “Touchy Deborah” however is attempting to emulate Craig’s List rants-n-raves on an astrology forum under the guise of “miffed conservatives”.

        So, Deborah-with-a-D, what’s the astrology behind Mexican and Canadian monkey business? Why are those two NAFTA countries now suspect?

        • I was just thinking along these lines myself. Marjorie doesn’t take sides in Politics, nor does she only allow liberal or conservative posts. There has always been a mix.

          Good questions, larryc. Would this be under Simian Astrology? Does NAFTA really stand for North American Foreign Traitor’s Association?

  12. Buckeye, President Trump: “I expect that Canada and Mexico will take action to prevent transshipment of aluminum/steel articles through Canada and Mexico to the United States.”
    Because NAFTA negotiations are ongoing at this time, it’s not a done deal. He’s giving Canada and Mexico a chance to do the right thing. That can easily be taken away at a later date if they try any monkey business.
    Would love to see that BBC article, please give link, thanks.

    • ” He’s giving Canada and Mexico a chance to do the right thing. ”

      And what is the “right thing”? (eyes rolling)

      • Larryc, has he/she ever once mentioned astrology? I’m picturing a cheeto fingerling who has this site in the crosshairs for heavy propaganda bombardment.

    • Google it. Was on more than one creditable news source. Not surprised you missed it.

      Trump has been caught making a bad business decision that affects the entire country, and now he’s resorting to magical thinking to save face.

      Canada and Mexico will welcome the new unexpected rise in business and jobs. They are not america’s servants. And it’s not “monkey business”, Canada and Mexico had nothing to do with Trump’s tariff scheme, and therefore, are under no obligation to do anything at all about it.

  13. There’s no great coup by Trump at this point. North Korean leadership has been itching to meet with the US president for at least 20 years. The US always insisted on preconditions the NK regime would not meet.

    Per the NY Times a South Korean diplomat told Trump that Kim wanted to meet with him, and Trump told the South Korean, “Great, I’ll do it, go out and tell the press.” No thought, no understanding of the complexities. Typical Trump. Only after did Trump’s advisers get a hold of him and now they’re saying Kim has to meet preconditions first. Just like the US has been saying for decades. Decent chance the meeting doesn’t happen.

  14. Read an interesting and darkly comedic comment by a pundit yesterday: “This is a Nixon in China moment, only if Nixon had been a moron.”
    Marjorie, I can’t imagine how this could be calculated astrologically, but a fascinating question is how this overture will go over with the North Korean population themselves, as they’ve been brainwashed to so hate and distrust the U.S. Recalibrating that message, it seems, would be a tremendous challenge; read that news of the overture had not been shared in NK.
    Without a functioning state department in the U.S. currently, or anyone except hard right ideologues providing “counsel” to Trump, the great fear here is that he will be mercilessly played. We’re looking at NK missiles that can reach our U.S. cities in the short term, and it’s not reassuring that a 4-time bankrupt huckster who can’t read a whole position paper is representing our interests in this critical summit.
    And if I may, an unrelated and personal observation: have been following you and participating in your forum for years. How odd it is to read “Deborah” posts that are completely antithetical to my own thoughts and questions, and completely devoid, too, of astrological questions and/or expressions of interest. Of course, a name, even with identical spelling, cannot be protected, but it’s an odd, bot-like universe we’ve moved into and quite an odd experience from this reader’s perspective…Best regards and special thanks for your analysis on this especially critical matter, Original Deborah, not Trump Deborah

    • I’m not a bot, it’s my name. Marjorie can vouch for me, I had her do a reading on my daughter maybe five years back. I’ve been here a long time. Maybe you’re the bot.

    • Deborah – tho the rockets could potentially reach US soil…and there is proof of nukes, placing one on top of the other doesn’t mean the assembly will work. What was learned during the Pacific atomic tests is that a nuke, exploded at the correct altitude, can create a massive EMP burst. Eveything is solid state and miniaturized nowadays…but in the 1950, the transistor was a curiosity. Everything had tubes, inherently EMP-proof. A book was written, titled “One second after”…” The novel deals with an unexpected electromagnetic pulse attack on the United States as it affects the people living in and around the small American town of Black Mountain, North Carolina”

      Project Argos conducted in the Atlantic ocean cooked several satellites already in orbit.

      No need to physically attack the US or its territories and allies. Light one off at the correct altitude, everything goes dark. What we learn from history is how much we forget.

    • Original Deborah, people in this situation often add a highlight before their name, as in “THE Deborah”, “Original Deborah” or, as celebrities do with their verified accounts, “the real Deborah”. Add something to your name and we will always know who you are. If the other Deborah appropriates it (she seems to like the camoflague of having the same name), point it out to Marjorie so she can bring out the banhammer.

  15. This overture from NK is pretty transparent. The tariffs just announced and the NAFTA renegotiation, soon coming to a close, are weighing heavily on Chinese leadership’s minds. China’s belt and road initiative is structured heavily on status-quo economic models coming out of the United States. Trump’s economic nationalism has turned that on its ear and China is really threatened by it.

    China’s economy is a carefully orchestrated house of cards built on a sandy foundation.

    With all that said, I think it is apparent that the sanctions plus military threat has created a no-win situation for NK. One of the key requirements for success in Socialist/Communist societies is that they need to be able to shield themselves from the consequences of their actions and it looks like NK is nearing the end of their rope.

    Their economy’s chief export is fear, for which they have essentially received ransom payments from the free world over the past 25 years. This time around Trump is the man in charge and Kim Jong-un is staring down the barrel of a gun held by Mattis. A peaceful resolution to the situation is the only tenable outcome for NK, and oh by the way, China.

    Also, regarding Mattis, keep in mind that we’re just around the corner from the Russian Mercenary massacre in Syria at the hands of a well-armed and prepared US military. The US media isn’t talking about this massacre at all but believe me the rest of the world, especially US enemies, study our military *very* closely and they noticed this little message courtesy of Mattis.

    My final analysis is that I believe NK denuclearization is possibly an attempt by China to set up a gambit for the US. That is, either NAFTA/Tariffs or a denuclearized Korean peninsula.

    • Trump already goofed up the tariffs by including free passes to favored countries. One of those is Canada, where China will send their exports like steel and cheap consumer goods. Canadian shill companies will export them to the US tariff-free, US consumers will have to pay for the extra middleman, and China will make even more money.

      Last week the BBC news reported that Trump thought he was talking on the phone to Kim, but it was really the president of South Korea he was speaking with. Would not surprise me if Trump tops this off with a historic visit to Kim Kardashian.

  16. A player in this whole scenario is South Korea, which would have a whole lot to lose if a war started — they would bear the horrific brunt of any NK aggression. Maybe look at SK’s chart?After all, their leader brokered this meeting.

    • China and Russia would have some heartburn, along with Japan.

      Looks like Trump reversed himself – “no meeting until I’m seeing concrete proof of denuclearization. ” His remaining staff must be going nutz.

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